FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

To be fair, it was a joke to people unfamiliar with FFXI and it's cockblocking zone architecture that jumping wasn't in the game at launch. Now when they see the developers relenting and indicating they're most likely putting it in they just shake their heads and smile. It's not going to pull hundreds of thousands of subscriptions to the game because the FFXIV title has already been all but destroyed over the last few months. That said, I wish them luck in turning things around and I'd be really happy if I'm proved wrong and the subs soar through the roof because I'll be picking it up on the PS3 if that's the case.

[Freelancer]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

If the jump feature is as realistic as possible like jumping over small obstacles or jumping off ledges with a minor hp loss and even a stumbling moment before the character can go any further I'll be all for it, but bunnyhopping is a big huge gigantic no.

Headgear toggle is stupid and I don't want it unless its elaborate like pulling up the visor on a helm or the hood on a cowl, but disappearing armor is also a big no.

I'm surprised no capes were mentioned, lol...

Other than that I'm very happy that Yoshi-P won't wipe our characters, and the quests are otw, also very happy about putting in gear with level/class requirements, because I have no motivation to rank up my GLA since I've already made and have Cavalry gear that I wear on my CONJ for lolz...

Hopefully we'll see AF armor.

[Gman]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

Well, that's a lot of change.

Call me crazy, but looking at the answers to the poll questions, and in some cases, the overwhelming response, does it seem like the players just want FFXI?

I wonder if S-E isn't saying to themselves right now... "hmm, we could have just remastered FFXI in HD, given it a new story with new characters, abilities, and quests, but kept all the fundamentals the same". Again, to me it seems like that is what the players are asking for, and of course, that's what S-E will do if it means keeping players happy and finally making money. What would you guys feel about that? I'm still waiting on the 2013 release of the PS3 version, so I can't comment.

[Aksannyi]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

Headgear toggle is stupid and I don't want it unless its elaborate like pulling up the visor on a helm or the hood on a cowl, but disappearing armor is also a big no.

Some people just like seeing their hair and not some ugly turban. It just saves me the trouble of having to dat swap ugly headgear out. And I still have no idea what the fuck the devs were thinking when they put that godawful chinstrap on the Walmart turban, it looks like shit on every single race that has it.

I never keep my headgear visible in WoW, I like seeing my hairstyle. After I realized the wonders of dat swapping in FFXI, all of my headgear became a small flower in my hair - each a different color so that I'd still have a visual cue that my gear was changed when I hit macros. Headgear is generally ugly unless it's BLM AFv2 or RDM AF.

Yeah it's a little thing and not all that important in the grand scheme of things, but if it's something a lot of people want to be able to do (and the vast array of people who dat swap regularly attest to this) then why not put it in? People who want to show their hats can, people who don't can leave them off.

Really the amount of nit-picking in this thread is kind of silly. Just because it is a feature that you personally do not want does not mean it's not a good feature or something that other people would like to see.

[Firewind]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

The above is why I always wore a Noble's Crown out of battle. It made my White Mage look cute and I would never have to stare a fugly or mis-matched headgear in battle since I would be paying more attention to things elsewhere :3

Still I would love to have a helmet toggle on FFXIV because the hats on there are fugly. Turbans and bandanna look okay on my Mioq'te but some of the helmets, especially the archer's hoods, just look silly.

And it's easy to implement jumping without bunny hopping:

In Aion you glide by tapping the spacebar twice, which means that if you don't want to put flight on cooldown or end up gliding off the edge of a cliff or into a load of mobs because an air draft hit you, you have to run normally.

Warhammer Online had a couple of Tombs Bosses (the game's BCNMs) where you had to avoid the floor. One was because Scarabs would swarm and murder the entire party The Mummy style if you touched the sand. Another was similar to the Diablos fight on FFXI. The boss would teleport around from time to time and you would have to hop across platforms to get to him, he would occasionally summons adds that would blast you off the platforms if you got close and spending more than 2-3 seconds on the floor would kill you. Bunny hopping would NOT save you there.

Another brilliantly evil thing Warhammer Online would do is kill you if you get stuck on an obstacle. But since the ONLY way to get stuck in or on an obstacle is to bunny hop...

WoW has some VERY annoying jumping sections in early dungeons. Wailing Caverns....ugh I hate that whenever I level an alt. There is barely visable a jump that if you miss (and you WILL miss it), you WILL end up back at the very beginning of an dungeon that takes at least an hour to complete. If mobs have re spawned the entire party has to drop down to help you back.
There's some other one in an early dungeon where you're underwater, Blackfathom Depths I think. You have to jump over a bunch of platforms over some water full of mobs at one point. You always get someone who gets stuck there.

There's a bunch of other MMOs that I have played where jumping is either gone (UWO) or really not an issue at all (Rifts and Star Wars Old Republic Betas). the people who whine about bunny hopping tend to be the people who have WoW despite never having played it.

[Aksannyi]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

Wailing Caverns....ugh I hate that whenever I level an alt

For serious, I've done it like twelve times in the past few weeks on alts. Luckily I only missed it once but yeah ... not fun to run all the way back around. Did it last night on my main, guild was going for the ach, and of course the final boss glitched and never spawned, so back again to start the whole goddamn thing over ... /rage

Maybe XIV could put a cooldown on jumping or something if people are that perturbed about bunny hopping. I admit that I do it on my Belf but only because I love watching her spin in the air every few jumps. But a cooldown (even 30 seconds) would keep people from abusing the shit out of it and using it only when they need to get around that invisible barrier like the one in Tavnazian Safehold that I'd hit every time I'd go there.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

I really don't see the point of changing the class names for anything other than the sake of nostalgia and familiarity to other MMOs.

More quest content and adjustments to jobs I can understand, but doing a complete overhaul on how combat works could lead to an even bigger mess.

Also, I don't really care for the fact some of the data was only taken from FFXI player. I mean, its not people coming from other MMOs can't offer some insight here and taking feedback only from FFXI kinda makes me worry he's going to make this more like FFXI than FFXIV, a game that was supposed to be somewhat different.

If you're going to make it more like FFXIV, drop the "V" and port over an HD version of Vana'diel.

And really, teh opposition to things like jumping is silly, it would be like opposition to swimming or being able to climb ladders.

It wouldn't kill MMO developers to add some basic platforming elements to the mix. I'm not asking for the antics Mario, the Prince or Nathan Drake get into, but it would be nice if the world had a bit more to it than running around.

Even EQOA on the PS2 had swimming. You could only go so far out in the ocean, but lakes were always fun and there were sea monsters, too.

[Khalus]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

Well, that's a lot of change.

Call me crazy, but looking at the answers to the poll questions, and in some cases, the overwhelming response, does it seem like the players just want FFXI?

I wonder if S-E isn't saying to themselves right now... "hmm, we could have just remastered FFXI in HD, given it a new story with new characters, abilities, and quests, but kept all the fundamentals the same". Again, to me it seems like that is what the players are asking for, and of course, that's what S-E will do if it means keeping players happy and finally making money.

^This, so much win! I like XIV for what it is, and being able to play all the classic races in HD, but all I really wanted was FFXI-2. I would've settled had they just taken XI, and upgraded it to XIV's graphics and then expanded on the world and its lore. Isn't there like 4-5 other massive continents mentioned in the lore that have never been seen yet!?

I know this is just a mock up, not an official map, but from what I've been told and read about, there are NPCs in Vana'diel that mention or talk about these other continents.




Maybe the final 91-99 levels in XI will be a new boxed expansion, taking place on one of these other continents, with 2-3 dozen new zones and combat mirroring Bastion from Abyssea. Which is basically how FoV is being turned into for the existing zones. Its pretty clear that SE have all but removed the dire need for the standard PT camp/pull with Abyssea and they won't be going back to that, not after the style of combat offered from there.

[Firewind]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

That map makes no sense. Nothern "Middle Lands" are frozen yet North Urghan is Swampland with subtropical flora and fauna not that far south of Quifim and B. Glacier. it would need to be much further south otherwise logically half of the continent should be frozen like "Middle lands"

And to be honest I wouldn't want FFXI HD for several reasons:

1) What would be the point in buying it unless the game is significantly different enough from XI to warrant playing it?

2) People also don't realise how much time and resources making a fully HD world requires as it's not as if you can just port the assets.

3) Would I be able to keep my character data or will have have to do everything I spent the last 5 years of playing the game all over again?

4) FFXI has aged BADLY. Why would I play a 9 year old game with a slow and clumsy combat system, poor netcode, terrible quest system, slow and aged crafting system and antiquated gameplay mechanics just because it looks shiny? They would have to redesign the entire interface and game engine from the ground up, otherwise we will just be playing a PS2 game that has HD graphics.

5) What about the people playing FFXIV?

6) Making new quests, storylines, NPCS etc will take a while. Remember that this hypothetical FFX-2 will need to be sufficiently different enough from FFXI to warrant playing it.

7) What if FFX-2 bombs? SE will lose even more money on development for a HD game, that if it is just FFX-2, probably isn't even going to be worth buying if it's just a HD port of FFXI.

8) Most people don't care about HD graphics as long as the game itself is aesthetically pleasing. WoW, Super Mario Galaxy, Pokemon and Mario Kart all say hi. FFXI still looks incredible, especially for a game that's about 9 years old. Why waste time and resources making it HD when it could be better spent on improving FFXI or FFXIV?

9) Developing FFXI HD would also take time and resources from further game development. FFXIII-2 might improve on FFXIII a lot though we would never know if it's money and team is pulled to make FFXI HD. People like Kingdom Hearts right? Well the next one might have to be delayed to make FFXI HD. What if Squeenix hands over development to a third party? What if another game is cancelled, is delayed or is rushed out so that time and resources can be diverted to FFXi HD? Think about it for a moment please.

10) Why do that and make boxed expansions when it's cheaper and more profitable to go the digital distribution route like they have with the last 6 "expansions" to FFXI?

To be honest I would just rather them improve on FFXI and FFXIV then risk bankruptcy because idiotic fans want [insert favourite FF game] HD, no matter how stupid a buisness move it will be.

[Etra]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

Well, that's a lot of change.

Call me crazy, but looking at the answers to the poll questions, and in some cases, the overwhelming response, does it seem like the players just want FFXI?

I wonder if S-E isn't saying to themselves right now... "hmm, we could have just remastered FFXI in HD, given it a new story with new characters, abilities, and quests, but kept all the fundamentals the same". Again, to me it seems like that is what the players are asking for, and of course, that's what S-E will do if it means keeping players happy and finally making money. What would you guys feel about that? I'm still waiting on the 2013 release of the PS3 version, so I can't comment.

SE had a "secret" meeting back in 2005 (2004?) about this. It was either remaster XI and re-release it, or make another FF online title. Funny how it turned out. Maybe if they had talked with the community more, they would of known better.

[Gman]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

That map makes no sense. Nothern "Middle Lands" are frozen yet North Urghan is Swampland with subtropical flora and fauna not that far south of Quifim and B. Glacier. it would need to be much further south otherwise logically half of the continent should be frozen like "Middle lands"

And to be honest I wouldn't want FFXI HD for several reasons:

1) What would be the point in buying it unless the game is significantly different enough from XI to warrant playing it?

2) People also don't realise how much time and resources making a fully HD world requires as it's not as if you can just port the assets.

3) Would I be able to keep my character data or will have have to do everything I spent the last 5 years of playing the game all over again?

4) FFXI has aged BADLY. Why would I play a 9 year old game with a slow and clumsy combat system, poor netcode, terrible quest system, slow and aged crafting system and antiquated gameplay mechanics just because it looks shiny? They would have to redesign the entire interface and game engine from the ground up, otherwise we will just be playing a PS2 game that has HD graphics.

5) What about the people playing FFXIV?

6) Making new quests, storylines, NPCS etc will take a while. Remember that this hypothetical FFX-2 will need to be sufficiently different enough from FFXI to warrant playing it.

7) What if FFX-2 bombs? SE will lose even more money on development for a HD game, that if it is just FFX-2, probably isn't even going to be worth buying if it's just a HD port of FFXI.

8) Most people don't care about HD graphics as long as the game itself is aesthetically pleasing. WoW, Super Mario Galaxy, Pokemon and Mario Kart all say hi. FFXI still looks incredible, especially for a game that's about 9 years old. Why waste time and resources making it HD when it could be better spent on improving FFXI or FFXIV?

9) Developing FFXI HD would also take time and resources from further game development. FFXIII-2 might improve on FFXIII a lot though we would never know if it's money and team is pulled to make FFXI HD. People like Kingdom Hearts right? Well the next one might have to be delayed to make FFXI HD. What if Squeenix hands over development to a third party? What if another game is cancelled, is delayed or is rushed out so that time and resources can be diverted to FFXi HD? Think about it for a moment please.

10) Why do that and make boxed expansions when it's cheaper and more profitable to go the digital distribution route like they have with the last 6 "expansions" to FFXI?

To be honest I would just rather them improve on FFXI and FFXIV then risk bankruptcy because idiotic fans want [insert favourite FF game] HD, no matter how stupid a buisness move it will be.

I'm not sure if you were responding to me or someone else, but I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I was trying to imply that the devs should have kept the core mechanics the same as FFXI when designing FFXIV. The obvious stuff would need to be new- new lore, battle abilities, UI, even leveling system, character customization, and synthesis. But the things that were tried and true in FFXI didn't need to be changed - the party invite system, the AH, the mog houses (or similar), skillchains, or some similar variation, zones, mob behaviour, keys, treasure chests, etc, etc. There was so much done right in FFXI, it was just a stupid idea to not take that and build on it for FFXIV. I think the devs are seeing by the results of the surveys that they strayed too far from a winning (but aged and in need of modernizing) formula.

I wasn't implying that it would have been a good idea to simply give FFXI better graphics and let it carry on... although the FFXI hardcore players probably wouldn't mind that.

tl;dr version - keep what was good about FFXI, and change what was bad about it to make the ultimate MMORPG experience. That's what players wanted, and that's what S-E is kicking themselves over now.

[Khalus]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

1) What would be the point in buying it unless the game is significantly different enough from XI to warrant playing it?

well, for one...pay attention to the topic that is being discussed, XI-2 would be different, just look at how much everything has changed in XI these past 2 years and what is yet to come here soon.

2) People also don't realise how much time and resources making a fully HD world requires as it's not as if you can just port the assets.

Of course not, in this scenario XIV was not developed, just XI-2 instead... so we have 5+ years of development on the Crystal Tools engine, that resulted in FFXIII and XIV

3) Would I be able to keep my character data or will have have to do everything I spent the last 5 years of playing the game all over again?

Thats always a tough one, but if there were a direct continuation of XI, I wouldn't see why not. Allow all current players of XI to port their char into this new game, and all new players could start anew from all the old content of XI in HD or start at 91 in the new XI-2 content.

4) FFXI has aged BADLY. Why would I play a 9 year old game with a slow and clumsy combat system, poor netcode, terrible quest system, slow and aged crafting system and antiquated gameplay mechanics just because it looks shiny? They would have to redesign the entire interface and game engine from the ground up, otherwise we will just be playing a PS2 game that has HD graphics.

Your opinion, and you wouldn't have to, but there are quite a few still playing XI that enjoy it and in almost every XIV forum discussion there are tons of people saying that XIV should have just been an HD ver of XI!

5) What about the people playing FFXIV?

Pay attention, XIV wouldn't have existed...

6) Making new quests, storylines, NPCS etc will take a while. Remember that this hypothetical FFX-2 will need to be sufficiently different enough from FFXI to warrant playing it.

Again pay attention, all the time spent developing XIV, would've been this new HD ver of XI-2 instead...XIV does not exist in this scenario.

7) What if FFX-2 bombs? SE will lose even more money on development for a HD game, that if it is just FFX-2, probably isn't even going to be worth buying if it's just a HD port of FFXI.

Again, considering so many players are wishing XIV would've been an HD XI, plus the population of XI never faltered when XIV launched, and that says players enjoyed XI far more.

8) Most people don't care about HD graphics as long as the game itself is aesthetically pleasing. WoW, Super Mario Galaxy, Pokemon and Mario Kart all say hi. FFXI still looks incredible, especially for a game that's about 9 years old. Why waste time and resources making it HD when it could be better spent on improving FFXI or FFXIV?

Says you, this chart says otherwise and yet again XIV doesn't exist in this scenario, thus all the time spent would have been improving FFXI instead!


9) Developing FFXI HD would also take time and resources from further game development. FFXIII-2 might improve on FFXIII a lot though we would never know if it's money and team is pulled to make FFXI HD. People like Kingdom Hearts right? Well the next one might have to be delayed to make FFXI HD. What if Squeenix hands over development to a third party? What if another game is cancelled, is delayed or is rushed out so that time and resources can be diverted to FFXi HD? Think about it for a moment please.

Thats why there are multiple teams that make games at each company, and its already happening whether you like it or not, such is life.

10) Why do that and make boxed expansions when it's cheaper and more profitable to go the digital distribution route like they have with the last 6 "expansions" to FFXI?

My goodness "boxed expansion" doesn't mean it has to actually be boxed and sold at a brink n' mortar. Am talking about the amount of content released, and equivalent to the price of such.

To be honest I would just rather them improve on FFXI and FFXIV then risk bankruptcy because idiotic fans want [insert favourite FF game] HD, no matter how stupid a buisness move it will be.

And this whole scenario was nothing but an improvement to XI, where XIV doesn't exist, and I'm so hurt calling me an idiot, ya should re-read the crap you spewed above before calling another an idiot...rofl

.......

[jenova_9]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

Many FFXI veterans wouldn't want a FFXI HD.

Hydaelyn's lore has more potential to grow and improve over the years, especially with an evil empire that has great technology and stuff. It could be the FFVI or FFXII of fantasy mmorpgs,mew. There could be more freshing regions and flavor added to it that feels more new and different than a remake of FFXI.

FFXI already as it's own universe and flavor, so FFXIV should make itself stand out with its own lore and ways of doing things, even if some things are similiar, that way people have two Final Fantasy worlds and lores and list of rules to choose from instead of one.

And with FFXIV being independant from FFXI, it allows itself to avoid any mistakes FFXI makes in the present or future.

[Firewind]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}



Your graphics argument has a massive logical fallacy. 41.3% said they prefered graphics. That is not the majority of players. 68.7% of players polled so NOT consider graphics to be the most important thing, a number that greatly outnumbers the number of players who are concerned about graphics. If this was some sort of competition to determine a winner that uses a First Past The Post voting system then yes I would concede but it's a simple poll to see what people want. I will concede that graphics was the most popular answer compared to each other individual option though

And about Final Fantasy Forums, a fairly significant chunk of discussions tend to be "X FF game should be redone in HD!" Honestly it can be applied to any FF game. "Why did they make FFXIV when they could have done FFVII HD?" "Why did they make FFXIII when they could have made FFVI HD?" "Why are they making FFXIII-2 when they could be making Kingdom Hearts HD?" (yes I have seen that before somewhere on Gamefaqs) etc etc

Also read my post. I was posting WHY FFXI-2 would have been a bad idea. Also factor in the number of idiots on forums who would bash the game because "ZOMG IT'S JUST FFXI HD WHY PLAY!". Squeenix has a fanbase with vocal sections that have ridiculously high expectations matched only by the grandiose sense of entitlement that they have.

And yes I said "idiotic fans", meaning the very vocal part of the fanbase that does nothing but complain. I didn't expect you to take this as a personal insult but I suppose I was wrong. I'll apologise for that because it wasn't my intention, I'll make myself more clear next time.

I'm not sure if you were responding to me or someone else, but I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. I was trying to imply that the devs should have kept the core mechanics the same as FFXI when designing FFXIV. The obvious stuff would need to be new- new lore, battle abilities, UI, even leveling system, character customization, and synthesis. But the things that were tried and true in FFXI didn't need to be changed - the party invite system, the AH, the mog houses (or similar), skillchains, or some similar variation, zones, mob behaviour, keys, treasure chests, etc, etc. There was so much done right in FFXI, it was just a stupid idea to not take that and build on it for FFXIV. I think the devs are seeing by the results of the surveys that they strayed too far from a winning (but aged and in need of modernizing) formula.

I wasn't implying that it would have been a good idea to simply give FFXI better graphics and let it carry on... although the FFXI hardcore players probably wouldn't mind that.

tl;dr version - keep what was good about FFXI, and change what was bad about it to make the ultimate MMORPG experience. That's what players wanted, and that's what S-E is kicking themselves over now.

I wasn't aiming at anyone specifically, more at the people who demand a HD version of [insert FF game here] and a highly gratuitous sense of entitlement without considering if it's even plausible to do. As I said in my post, I would have no issue with FFXI-2 if it was sufficiently different enough to FFXI to buy

Anyway sorry if you thought it was aimed at you. I will make myself more clear next time.

[Malacite]

Re: FFXIV Players' Poll The First ~ Results & Analysis {1/21/11}

tl;dr got other stuff to do atm will read later.

Just wanted to say that they'd better fucking not bring back gear-swapping. That's one element from XI I'm glad to see removed from combat.